If These Walls Could Talk
Moderator – Mike Savage
Panel:
Jon Witherspoon, Kitchell, CEM (Administrative Office of the Courts owner’s rep at the moment) – in current role, responsible for RFP-writing, review, selection
Carolyn Mallory, A-E Team Leader/Contracting Officer, USACE Sacramento District
Don Dodd, Senior Vice President, David Paul & Associates/Krismar Construction Company
No Powerpoint presentation! Yay!! Opportunity to ask real-world questions of these folks. Apologies now to the folks whose names I didn’t catch, or didn’t copy correctly…
Mike’s Three Questions:
1) What is a career highlight thus far?
a. Jon W. - investing in other people’s careers. I’ve never really put a lot of effort into making my career blossom, but a lot in other people. By virtue of that, my career has been successful.
b. Carolyn M. – I have finally become a contracting officer; but highlight was working with contractors post-Katrina in cleaning up the streets with FEMA
c. Don D. – as you get older, you smooth out the rough spots. Early in career, received nickname “True Grit.” Most fun is hiring people – I am going to give you a lot of responsibility and a lot of authority. And you are going to make mistakes. Just don’t keep making the same one. – Trust the people you hire to make good decisions.
2) What’s a passion of yours outside of work?
a. Don D. – love ocean; diving, sailing (on it, in it, under it). And photography – going to Africa
b. Carolyn M – my family. Like to go home and be with husband and daughter; needlepoint; movies; good books; Masonic – Order of Eastern Star
c. Jon W. – family’s first (39 years of marriage); 4 children, 2 grandchildren; discovered glassworking/ceramics; a few gallery shows
3) What is your process of hiring? Are you a sole-decision-maker? Or an influencer (part of a committee/take info to decision-maker)
a. Jon W. – always a public process; group/team decision. I am an influencer, but a lot of the time, we have veto power. But if we have a “favorite,” we can’t really make that happen.
b. Carolyn M. – Federal process for procurement; have been on panels, but not the hiring agency/decision-maker
c. Don D. – most of the time, client picks the architect (and sometimes with my input). But for engineers/subs, I make the decision, with some input from my own people.
Group Questions
1) Assuming you haven’t worked with consultant before, how do you like to be approached initially?
a. Jon W. – in public sector, I have certain guidelines I have to follow. Sometimes there are times I can’t meet with you. But usually, just ask. Don’t come to tell us what you can do for us. Just come in and really LISTEN – ask questions that will help you understand what our needs are. What we are ultimately looking for is a good cultural fit. You need to understand our culture.
b. Carolyn – there is a little bit of rigidity to our process. We have to be fair to all contractors. I am available to answer questions, but I have my own job to do. Your best bet is to network – get to know the small businesses to team with; highest qualified firms. How you present to us on paper is important. Look through fbo.gov. Read what it is that we’re asking for – don’t give more or less. Brown bags – while our people are having lunch, you can tell us about your firms. We cannot tell you about all upcoming projects, because we HAVE to have one public announcement
c. Don D. – if I’m working on a current project, I don’t really look at brochures. And I’m always working on projects. The way to get to me is through someone I’ve worked with. See if someone will recommend you to me to meet. Don’t tell us what you can do for us. Be straightforward, don’t embellish. What we value – speed (can do work quickly) and imagination (when the typical way doesn’t work, are you open to finding a new way to do it?) I want someone to tell me “I don’t think you should be doing that…” and then offer an alternative
Kristine Kenney – DAHL Consultants (Water Resources, Conveyance)
FBO.gov opportunity, but we have no previous history with it; what are our chances?
a. Jon W. – low probability. Not because we’re looking at you as a new player, but because “what can you really learn about our culture and what we value in 30 days?” At Kitchell, if we haven’t pre-positioned for a year, we generally will not propose. It really comes through – the firms that really understand our cultures, it shows in their proposals and in their interviews. BEG for a debrief. If the client is NOT going to give a debrief, I would recommend not submitting.
b. Carolyn – I don’t necessarily disagree with Jon; but the official line is “Everybody has a chance.” If you aren’t selected for the pursuit, ask for a debrief. We will not compare you to other firms or give you your rank. But we can tell you some stuff. And look for pre-solicitations or market research. That is your first peek into what might be coming, and from there you can ask questions and help the agency figure out what is available.
c. Don D. – talk to brokers. They’ll blab to anybody. You’ll get the knowledge about what our firm may be looking at. THAT is the time to talk to us.
Sandy Graham – DPR Construction
Administrative Office of the Courts looking for culture fit. What is your culture?
Jon W – first we select on qualifications. We get between 30-40 proposals, and at least half are technically qualified. AOC then looks at which firms mesh with their values. “Added value” and listening well (not arrogant experts). Patience – we’re a state agency – we’re an awful client – we’re going to make verbal promises that we can’t put in writing, and take a year to get under contracting.
Sonya Coopwood – HMH Builders (wholly owned subsidiary for Swinterton)
What can I do and not do with regards to the regs for BD? How can we build relationships with public agencies? Is it all hard bid or are relationships still valuable? What associations?
a. Jon W. – find out what associations the agency values. Our president of AOC is the head of an association. That’s where I’d go, for example. And then, just ask – most people are open to you asking about what you can/can’t do. “We don’t want to violate any regulations/ethics; how may I approach you and whom should I approach?” Keep in mind people don’t have as much time any more. Cuts in staff makes it harder to find time. The brown bags is a great – we have to eat, and why not pair that with an intro to your firm?
b. Carolyn – they are often statutes and laws; I have nothing on my desk with contractor/firm name; I don’t accept a cup of coffee; I have to be fair, so that requires me to keep you at a distance.
How do you see the supplier/manufacturer role in what you do?
a. Carolyn – I don’t do a lot with the reps themselves. I get initial design done by AE firm. Our technical people get manufacture reps. But we do accept the specs from the AE firm, so try going through those primes. Or sometimes what contract vehicle we’re using will affect the manufacture specs – ie what will affect the bottom line?
b. Jon W – most agencies are not too interested in being on cutting edge of technology. They want something tried and true. And we just don’t have time to meet with manufacture reps anymore.
c. Don D - usually we get manufacturer/materials info from our subcontractors.
Shannon Glocklin (?)
Are agencies moving to public records forms?
a. Carolyn – remember, I am federal, I am not state/county. The federal procurement process is dictated and instructions are available. You can take government procurement classes, space available. All of it is public information, but it is interpreted differently by each federal agency. Prospect SchoolHouse – designed to enhance individuals in USACE to do their jobs better/faster. We do it to enhance our in-house capabilities; but you can probably get in the class. There is a Freedom of Information Act way to get to the competitors’ materials, but I will redact it to the point of it being of little/no value to see it.
b. Jon W. – at state level, too, there are ways to get to the proposals, but we’re going to make it really hard for you to get it, and we’re going to redact the info. We do it for your benefit and theirs, to protect the company’s information.
What can we say to you in messages to help to get a call back?
a. Jon W. – better if you send me an email, introduce yourselves, and what you might be interested, and I’ll reply – “yeah, we have something,” or “no, contact me in a year when we will be talking about that kind of work”
b. Carolyn – there are times I cannot answer your questions because it isn’t time yet. But listen very carefully to what I say – be attentive. It will give you clues to timing – something may be happening soon.
c. Don D. – get to me through consultants who are already working with me
Mike S – What do you want to see in submittals?
a. Don D. – approach me with the qualifications for the type of job you want to do
b. Carolyn – follow the instructions to the letter. They must be received timely and to the location requested. Follow selection criteria, and make sure you are answering our criteria. Give examples. Follow the regulations – there are good guides. Highlight the strengths of your firm that answer each requirement. In the guise of being creative, don’t go overboard. Not so many pictures/graphics that the page is boggling; watch the font size; watch the frills. Make it easy for us to read.
c. Jon W. – written proposal is first time you’ll be graded against everyone else. Guaranteed the reviewers will not read every word you wrote. Make your pertinent information POP – don’t make me search for it. Help me find what I need to answer the criteria. Don’t get too cute – so like if you’re proposing for a library, and bind proposal like a book. But the book doesn’t stay open! Understand that some of the people looking at your proposal don’t understand the AE business
Bill Strong, Mahlum Architects
What about alternative delivery methods – where do you see this heading?
a. Jon W. – easy answer for state – we’re bound by public contracting code or not. Agencies are becoming a little more open to trying things. All of our projects are CM at risk – but we have one project that is public/private partnership – but the contract for that in 2500 pages, and torturous to get there. I just don’t see too many public agencies that want to be on the cutting edge of everything.
b. Carolyn – we have the guidelines, rules, regulations. Some of what we want to do, we may be prohibited. We have CM at risk – some sister districts have done it. But that’s probably about as creative as the federal government has done.
c. Don D. – we have done some design/build; but we’re kinda control freaks.
Julie Rengold – Treadwell and Rollo
Small business – but not a prime, so can’t get selected because we don’t have the 15 “preference points”.
a. Carolyn – one of charters is to build the small business community. SBA sets goals and regulates to federal agencies. If you’re not a big firm with high exposure or a small business, it is TOUGH. You will have to be teaming.
Stephanie
What is most important to you in proposal?
a. Jon W. – cover letter. And Collaboration – we want to know that the people who are being proposed have worked on the projects being proposed. We want to see folks/firms that have worked together. And experience of the assigned PM.
b. Carolyn – the context is going to most zero in on the technical info/experience. Please don’t HIDE anything. Say it one time, and then reference it over and over (rather than restate it, and forget to adjust it later…) Most important information up front. We have to follow our own criteria, so follow what we say
Jen Stewart – Vanir
SF330 – do you frown upon team that has not worked on together?
a. Jon W – no, not at all. We want to hear the story. Why did you choose this team to collaborate with? What is the value? The team that grades your written proposal will NOT necessarily be the same as interview team.
b. Carolyn – do your best, then find out how successful you were in debrief
Mike Savage
At what point does the consultant become a pest? (in trying to connect with you)
a. Don D. – don’t keep banging away on the same door. If you make your point, you don’t have to keep calling back. If you want to call back, as me how long from now do I want to be approached? Treat the client the way you want to be treated.
b. Carolyn – I can only talk about what is currently publically available through FBO. If you see something in senate budget, I can’t talk about that. When I’ve answered your question and I say “I’ve answered your question as best I can,” please take me at my word. And when it has been 45-60 minutes, please understand I have other work to do. I will cut you off.
c. Jon W. – ask us if you’re being a pest. I’ll tell you how frequently I want contact.
Have heard Small Business threshold is going up. What do you think?
a. Carolyn – it will have to pass congress. I don’t have influence. You’re probably going to hear about it before me.
Mike S – Where do you see your workflow in the next 2 years?
a. Don D. – we probably will start an office building on one of our three sites. We also have been buying existing buildings and refurbishing. The money is there.
b. Carolyn – look at economy and where budgets are. That will tell you how constrained our budgets are. USACE actually markets to agencies to do their projects. What they get affects what we can get. Most contracts are IDIQ and full teams. You have to get on one of those teams, and start those teaming arrangement EARLY ON, before the IDIQ comes out. Work with all the primes.
c. Jon W. – biggest thing for state agencies is getting the California budget straightened out.
Overall, the information was good and the panelists were informative. The poor USACE representative really couldn’t, and didn’t, share anything you can’t look up online. Now, having personally waded through that information online, even a little guidance in THAT regard would have been nice. But she didn’t give an inch. To me, it was completely representative of my every interaction with federal procurement.
The AOC representative was honest and grounded. State systems, though regulated, still have a bit more flexibility. Good reminders about the economic stressors and staff cuts.
And the private partner representative was a ray of hope. Glad to hear that, from his perspective, the market is shaking loose. Keep it coming!
